This ones fer U Grasshopper,,,u Know who u are!:), well, once upon a time i thought i believed u did anyhow???………….
as with the many Nutshells this squirrel chooses to explore….one of the fav ones to have broken open and chewed the pieces out of in the past years is this and that from many different texts…. >>>>from many different things becomes one interpretation of budda’s nutshell:) if i may so put it to be:) i could have chosen many forms to explore this eve but thought it was apprapo jest to find sumpin easy betweenst taoism the dali lama and the discussions of christ etc….the gospel of budda was written 500 years bc….so to put a point jest goin back in time fer analysis a bit ferther than normal today I am:) jest doin a little fewd fer thought expansion!
fer me head ya know:) even though brain fade might be the result for u:)
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So 5 dissertations and discussions lead but to one conclusion here
read on:) …………..
pull up a chair first it will take up at least 5 minutes of ur precious time also:).
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“Quote of the day!”
“When the Yogi has full power over his body
composed of the elements of earth, water, fire, air, and ether,
then he obtains a new body of spiritual fire
which is beyond illness, old age, and death”.
– Krishna Yajur Veda, Svetasvatara Upanishad 2.12, The Poems of Tukaram (p.88)
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From the year 3700 bc to the year 1989 somewhere in the middle here is a guy that was pert kewl:)>…
Theodor Ippolitovich Stcherbatsky (1866-1942) was a Russian scholar of Oriental Studies, and specifically a world renown (during his lifetime) specialist of Buddhist studies. To him is attributed:
“Having analysed the whole of Buddhist literature
we shall set up such a philology as will surpass,
as a younger one, classical (Graeco-Roman) philology,
and raise India higher than Greece and Rome,
to which she has a full right.”
He journeyed, and his scholarly work and its publications saw Stcherbatsky regarded by many scholars in the west and in the east, as the leading figure in world Buddhology. He made a detaled study of the emergence of Buddhist thought in India, and specifically a detailed analysis of Vasubandu’s Abhidharmokosha. He wrote:
“the concept of dhiarma is the central point of Buddhist doctrine,
in which it admittedly occupies the keystone position”.
The following article is from the book Buddhist Logic, a two volume English translation of 1930-32, reissued 1970.
This article; if ya have the time is entitled:
Indo-European symposium
on the reality
of the external world
and Buddhist logic
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This Brings me to 5 Conversations to a conclusion…
all started with ism’s…..based on studies from many different texts:)
Discussions on Buddhism
First conversation – Subject Monism
Dharmaklrti … The essence of Consciousness is undivided![9] Subject and object is an illusive division. Their unity is Buddha’s Omniscience, his Spiritual Body!
Yogacara Buddhist … With the only exception of Buddha’s knowledge which is free from the division in subject and object, all other knowledge is illusive, since it is constructed as subject and object.[10]
Second conversation. Subject Dualism and Pluralism
Sankhya … There is not one eternal principle, but there are two: Spirit and Matter. Both are eternal, but the first is eternal stability, the other is eternal change. There is no interaction at all possible between them. However the change of the one is somehow reflected, or illumined, in the immovable light of the other. Inside Matter itself, six receptive faculties and six respective kinds of objective Matter are evolved. There is thus a double externality; the one is of the Matter regarding the Spirit. The other is of one kind of matter regarding the other. There is no God!
Descartes … All right! There are only two substances, the one extended, the other conscious. But both are eternally changing. There is a God, which is the originator and the controller of their concerted motion!
The Buddhist (Hinayana) … There is neither a God, nor an Ego, nor any spiritual, nor materialistic enduring substance. There are only Elements (dharmas), instantaneously flashing and disappearing. And there is a law of Dependent Origination in accord with which the Elements combine in aggregates. Just as in the Sankya there are six receptive faculties and six corresponding objective domains. There is thus here also a double externality. The one is of all Elements regarding one another, the other is of the six objective domains regarding the six receptive faculties.
Sankhya … These Elements are infra-atomic units (gunas), they are unconscious and eternally changing.
Heracleitus … These Elements are flashes appearing and disappearing in accord with a Law of continual change.
Democritus … These Elements are Atoms (material).
Herbart … These Elements are Reals (immaterial).
Mach … These Elements are nothing but sensations. Both the Ego and Matter are pure mythology. When philosophy is no more interested in the reality of an Ego, nothing remains but the causal laws of Functional Interdependence of sensations, in order to explain the connection of the whole.
1-st Vedantin … Real at the beginning was the Nought.[1]
2-nd Vedantin … Real at the beginning was neither Existence nor the Nought.[2]
3-rd Vedantin … Real at the beginning was only Existence, the One-without-a-Second.[3] It was Brahman.
4-th Vedantin … The Brahman is identical with our own Self. The «This» art «Thou![4]»
Parmenides … There is no Nought.[5] The Universe is the One. It is immovable.
Democritus … Immovable is the Nought. It is Empty Space. It is filled by moving atoms.[6]
The Buddhist … There is an Empty Space. It contains an infinity of perishable Elements. There is a Nought (Nirvana), when all the perishable Elements have perished.
Nagarjuna … All perishable objects are relative and void. Their Nought, or the Great Void,[7] is the only reality. It is the Buddha (in his Cosmical Body).
Spinoza … There is only One Substance! It is God (in his Cosmical Body).
Dignaga … The Culmination of Wisdom is Monism[8]. This Unity is the Buddha (in his Spiritual Body).
Dharmaklrti … The essence of Consciousness is undivided![9] Subject and object is an illusive division. Their unity is Buddha’s Omniscience, his Spiritual Body!
Yogacara Buddhist … With the only exception of Buddha’s knowledge which is free from the division in subject and object, all other knowledge is illusive, since it is constructed as subject and object.[10]
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J. St. Mill … The so-called Substance is nothing but a permanent possibility of sensations. “The notions of Matter and Mind, considered as substances, have been generated in us by the mere order of our sensations». Phenomena are held together not by a substance, but by an eternal law (of Dependent Origination).
Nagarjuna … Dependent Origination is alone without beginning, without an end and without change. It is the Absolute. It is Nirvana, the world sub specie aeternitatis.[11]
Third Conversation. Subject – the Logic of naive Realism and critical Logic
Dignaga … However the Universe sub specie aeternitatis can be cognized only by mystic intuition. It cannot be established by logic!
Candrakirti … It can be established by the condemnation of logic! Since all logical concepts are relative and unreal, there must be another, non-relative, absolute reality, which is the Great Void. It is the Cosmical Body of the Buddha.
Dignaga … In logic «we are only giving a scientific description of what happens in common life in regard to the sources of our knowledge and their respective objects.[14] We do not consider their transcendental reality!» In logic we can admit the reality of the external world.
Candrakirti … What is the use of that logic, if it does not lead to the cognition of the Absolute?
Dignaga … The Realists are bunglers in logic. They have given wrong definitions. We only correct them! 
The Realist … The external world is cognized by us in its genuine reality. Just as the objects situated in the vicinity of a lamp are illuminated by it, just so are the objects of the external world illuminated by the pure light of consciousness. There are no images and no Introspection. Self-consciousness is inferential.
The Yogacara Buddhist … There are images and there is introspection. «If we were not conscious of perceiving the patch of blue colour, never would we perceive it. The world would remain blind, it would perceive nothing». There are therefore no external objects at all. Why should we make the objective side of knowledge double?
Realist … But the running change of our pepceptions can be produced only by the Force of Experience. They change in accord with the change in the external world!
Buddhist … You need to assume some sort of Biotic Force in order to explain the change. It will be either the Force of Experience, or the Force of Productive Imagination, or the Force of Illusion. If you assume the latter there will be no reality at all in the phantom of an external world. If you assume the first there will be a superfluous double reality. If you assume the second you will have a transcendental ideality along with phenomenal reality.
The Bealist … Your theory resembles «a purchase without paying!» Indeed the external world, although consisting of mere point-instants, receives coloured perceptibility through imagination, but it can offer nothing in exchange, since it consists of colourless points! If sensation and understanding are entirely heterogeneous, how can a pure sensation be comprehended under a pure concept of the understanding, «as no one is likely to say that causality, for instance, could be seen through the senses?”
Kant … There must be some third thing homogeneous on the one side with the category and on the other with the object as it is given in concrete.
Dharmakirti … The intermediate thing is a kind of intelligble sensation. We assume that after the first moment of pure sensation there is a moment of intelligible sensation by the inner sense which is the thing intermediate between pure sensation and the abstract concept. There is moreover between them a Conformity or Coordination.
The Realist … What is this Conformity or Coordination?
Vasubandhu … It is the fact owing to which cognition, although also caused by the senses, is said to cognize the object and not the senses. The object is the predominant among the causes of cognition.
Dharmakirti … Coordination or Conformity is “Similarity between things absolutely dissimilar ». Indeed all things as unities are things in themselves, absolutely dissimilar from other things. But in the measure in which we overlook their absolute dissimilarity (their «in themselves»), they become similar. They become similar through a common negation. That is why all images are Universals and all Universals are mutual negations. Negativity is the essence of our Understanding. The senses alone are affirmation.
Hegel … According to my Dialectical Method, Negativity is equally the essence of the objective world, which is identical with the subjective one.
Dharmakirti … We must have an Affirmation contrasting with the Negativity of concepts.
Herbart … Pure sensation alone is Affirmation, it is absolute position!
Dignaga … Our logic aims at being equally acceptable to those who deny the existence of the external world and to those who maintain it. No one can deny that there are two kinds of cognized essences – the Particular and the Universal. The particular seemingly always resides in the external world, the universal is always in our head.
Berkley … There are no real universal or abstract ideas.
Dignaga … There are no particular ideas at all, an idea is always abstract and general. A particular image is a contradictio in adjecto. Particulars exist only in the external world. In our Mind apart from pure sensation, we have only universals.
Berkley … However to exist means to be perceived, esse est percepi. The external world does not exist beside what is perceived.
Dignaga … To exist means to be efficient.
Kant … It is “scandalous” that modern philosophy has not yet succeeded to prove beyond doubt the reality of the external world! If there were no things in themselves the phenomena as they appear to us would become such things. The things are «given» to our senses, they are “cognized”, i.e., constructed, by the Understanding in accord with its categories.
Santiraksita … Yes! Pure sensation is of course non-constructive, but it is a point-instant (Kraftpunkt) which stimulates the understanding to produce its own (general) image of the thing.
Dharmottara … Is it not a great miracle! The senses represent the Thing brightly, vividly, but they understand nothing definite. The intellect understands definitely, but without vividness, vaguely, dimly, generally; it can construct only a Universal. However the miracle is easily explained, The Understanding is Imagination!
Fourth Conversation. Subject – the Thing-in-Itself
F. H. Jacobi (and others) … Supposing the Things-in-Themselves really exist, they cannot affect our sensibility; since Causality, being a subjective Category, is possible only between phenomena, not between things.
The Jaina … Yes indeed! A thing which is strictly in itself, which has absolutely nothing in common with all other things in the whole world, is a non-entity, a flower in the sky! If you wish to distinguish it from a non-entity you must admit «Thingness” as a real Category, just as Causality and Substantiality.
Dharmottara … Thingness, Causality, Substantiality are of course general Categories of the Understanding. They are general and dialectical. But the single pure sensation is neither general, nor is it imagined, nor is it dialectical. There is a limit to generality, that out of which generality consists. Causality is not itself a sensible fact, it is an interpretation of it. But the Thing-in-Itself is a cause, a reality, an efficient point-instant, a dynamical reality, a unity, a thing as it is strictly in itself, not as it is in the «other», or in the «opposite”. The terms ultimate particular, ultimate cause, ultimate reality, the real thing, the real unit, the thing in itself, the thing having neither extention nor duration are synonyms. But it does not follow that Causality, Reality, Thingness, Unity, etc., are not general terms, different categories under which the same thing can be brought according to the point of view. There is no other genuine direct reality than the instantaneous Thing-in-Itself. Its cognition alone is pure Affirmation, it is not dialectical, not negative, it is direct and positive. Thus the fact that Causality and Reality are concepts and Categories for the Understanding, does not in the least interfere with the fact that the Thing-in-Itself is the reality cognized in pure sensation.
Hegel … Your Thing-in-Itself is a phantom!… It is Void…. It is an “absolute beyond» to all cognition…..Cognition becomes then contradictory, it becomes a cognition of a reality which is never cognized….
Demokritus … :)>The Thing-in-Itself far from being a phantom is nothing but the material Atom, underlying the whole of phenomenal reality.
Epikurus … The Thing-in-Itself (arche) is the material Atom together with the Vacuum and Motion.
Lucretius … We must admit a principium or semen, and it is the material solid Atom.
Hegel … This principium is neither the Atom, nor an «absolute beyond», but it is included in the idea of cognition. It is true that the very idea of cognition requires the object as existing by itself, but since the concept of cognition cannot be realized without its object, therefore the object is not beyond cognition. “Inasmuch as cognition becomes sure of itself, it is also sure of the insignificance of its opposition to the object”…. Thus it is that the Thing-in-Itself as something beyond cognition, and opposed to it, disappears and the subject and object of cognition coalesce, according to the general rule that everything definite is not a thing «in itself”, but a thing «in its other» or «in its opposite!”
Dharmottara … It is true that the thing becomes definite only when it is a thing related to, or included in, the other. But when it becomes definite it pari passu becomes general and vague. Vivid and bright is only the concrete particular, the Thing as it is in itself.
Dharmakirti … First of all, it is not true that the Thing-in-Itself means cognition of something that never is cognized. And then it is also wrong that the relation of the object to its cognition is one of inclusion or identity. Indeed, if the Thing-in-Itself would mean something absolutely incognizable, we never would have had any inkling of its existence. It is not cognized by our Understanding, it is not -understood”, but it is cognized by the senses in a pure sensation. It is cognized brightly, vividly, immediately, directly. Its cognition is instantaneus.We call it «unutterable». But again it is not unutterable absolutely. We call it «the thing», the «in itself», the cause, the point-instant (svalaksana), efficiency, pure object, pure existence, reality, ultimate reality, pure affirmation, etc. etc. Understanding, on the other hand, means indirect cognition, judgment, inference, imagination, analysis, generality, vagueness, negativity, dialectic. Productive Imagination can imagine only the general and dialectical. But the senses cognize the real and the real is the particular.
Dharmottara … The relation of the object to the subject of cognition in logic is not Identity. The object is not included in the subject. It is wrong to reduce all relations to «otherness» and then to declare that the opposites are identical. The relation of cognition to its object is causal…. Object and cognition are two facts causally interrelated.
Fifth Conversation. Subject – Dialectic
Hegel … The relation between subject and object, between internal and external, seems at first to be causal, as between two realities….But regarding them as an organic whole, there is no causal relation inside them at all…. There is nothing in the effect which did not preexist in the cause… and there is nothing real in the cause except its change into the effect….. But notwithstanding their identity cause and effect are contradictory. A change or a movement is possible only inasmuch as the thing includes a contradiction in itself.[ Motion is the reality of contradiction.]
Kamalasila … We must distinguish between Causality and Contradiction. Causality is real, Contradiction is logical. Simple humanity, whose faculty of vision is obscured by the gloom of ignorance, indeed identifies causality with contradiction. But philosophers must know the difference between contradiction and simple otherness, between otherness and necessary interdependence, between Causation and Coinherence, or Identity. They must know the theory of Relations of our Master Dharmakirti.
E. v. Hartmann (to Hegel) … Your Dialectical Method is simple madness
forgive them lord for all of their ISM’s from
pess-im-ism’s to sarcasism’s
dual-ism’s to plural-ism’s
help me to somehow find forgiveness for that which appears to have been done to ME?
Now if ya made it to the end of this post
Have a gewd day
puttin it all into a new- but old perceptive
of
“To Thine Own Self Be True”
an don’t let Ism’s get to ya, i know easier said then done….
Namaste’
frum Q to U
Quarksire 